Your commitment to excusing and apologizing for Israel's slaughter of civilians is rather impressive. But discussion on this topic is obviously futile, because you have already smeared anyone who disagrees as anti-semetic, stupid or "high-IQ cranks". You have created for yourself a perfect Plato's cave from which you never have to leave. Congratulations I suppose, Ignorance truly is bliss.
In the context of this conversation, it seemed clear to me that is exactly what you were saying. Allow me to refresh your memory.
After you toss off some casual unsubstantiated insults of pro-Palestinian protesters whom you admit to never having met, Vaishnav starts off this segment on anti-semitism at 51:45 by saying. at "The way they react to anything where the Jews are involved, which is mostly Israel now, it shows a willingness to indulge in patterns similar to the past." This signaled to me that Vaishnav clearly believes that anyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-semite. There are no objections to this statement.
Regan then chimes in talking about the "Strategic, conscious, weaponization of empathy and human rights against this group [Jews[", which furthers the narrative that anyone who criticizes Israel or the Jews is doing so cynically as a means to attack Jews/Israel, presumably because they are anti-semetic. No distinctions are made between Israel critics and anti-semites.
You Dr. Greenwald then say you agree with Regan, you blame Hamas for all civilian casualties in the Gaza war, then you go on to say, "antisemitism is a stupid persons belief system [...] its a thing dum people believe by and large, there are a few high-IQ cranks out there."
In the context of this conversation, it is clear to me that anti-semitism is equivalent to any criticism of Israel or Jews, and by declaring all anti-semitism to be stupid, what you were really saying is that anyone who disagrees with you on this issue is stupid or a high-IQ crank.
I am glad to hear however, that this is not the case. Perhaps you could clarify what you think is anti-semetic and who are the anti-semites whom you believe to all be stupid or high-IQ cranks.
Also I would like to introduce you to a pro-Palestine protester since you admit to never having met one. Stephen Kopos is a Jewish holocaust survivor and pro-Palestinian protester. In the interview linked below he states,
"What distinguishes the Jewish holocaust is its industrial scale, and industrial methods and what has been happening in Gaza is similar in that the scale of the bombing and the indiscriminate nature of the bombing, the complete lack of care of children and women, the majority of the victims, amounts to industrial scale genocide. The painting of Palestinian people as merciless, almost animal like, [...]that dehumanization enables the population of Israel to tolerate what is going on."
I would recommend you listen to the whole 12 minute interview if you would like a window into the minds of pro-Palestinian protesters whose motives you maligned but also claimed ignorance of.
- Yes, antisemitism is a stupid person's obsession. A few smart cranks who latch onto the ideology doesn't change that—smart people go down stupid rabbit holes all the time.
- No, criticism of Israel does not in principle = antisemitism
- Yes, in practice most criticism of Israel today is thinly veiled Jew hatred
- Antisemitism is hatred of Jews as Jews, or, put in more psychological terms, it's hatred of everything you find inadequate about yourself and therefore despite, along with everything you lack and therefore envy.
- As for high-IQ cranks, Kevin MacDonald may be one. But I don't like getting caught up in these kinds of "who's who" lists.
- I fail to see the relevance of the video. Mr. Kopos also discredits himself when he describes Israel as indiscriminately bombing civilians/children. That is ludicrously false, and you and me and everyone else knows it—don't pretend otherwise. If you took the time to write those nine paragraphs you just wrote, you surely know Israel goes to significant lengths to warn civilians of impending attacks, more than many other nations.
In this recent airstrike, which killed 100 people sheltering in a school, do you really imagine Israel warned them ahead of time? If you have the stomach for it, I recommend you go find images of what the aftermath of a school bombing looks like.
It seems like your are also ignorant of the AI targeting programs utilized by the IDF, which has a specific program called "Where's Daddy", which specifically targets suspected Hamas targets when they are home with their families. This is clearly deliberate targeting of civilians. https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
152 UN Aid workers have been killed by the IDF since Oct. 7th. Do you imagine all of these aid workers were warned before they were mudered?
Human Rights Watch says Palestinian healthcare workers were rounded up and sent to prison and mistreated and tortured. Is this consistent with an ethical state? https://x.com/AJEnglish/status/1828143250542338427
Socrates, whom you named your blog after, once said "The only thing I know is that I know nothing." By doing so he bravely acknowledges his own ignorance, a rather admirable statement, and I think a necessary basis for having a rational view of the world. You Dr. Greenwald on the otherhand, are so sure of yourself and your opinions that you call a Jewish holocaust survivor "discredited" on the subject of describing what is a deliberate genocide.
Your commitment to remaining in your Plato's cave is remarkable though unsurprising.
Well, it looks like we each have our own opinions about this. You seem opposed to Israel prosecuting this war the way it has thus far because of the damage it has inflicted. I, on the other hand, would have been OK with Israel conducting a far more damaging and brutal war than they in fact did. If they had flattened every square inch of Gaza on October 8, I would not have complained. But I’m not Israeli so I don’t tell them how to run their country.
Interesting. Not a big fan of human rights or the Geneva conventions then either I imagine. It saddens me to hear that a man who has devoted his life's work to helping others would advocate for more violence and destruction from the Israeli State. I suppose I can only hope that cooler and kinder minds prevail in this conflict, though that doesn't seem to be the way it is shaking out does it?
Ruminating on our conversation further last night I can't help but remark on this part of your argument which I find fascinating. You claimed to "know that I know" that you were correct with regards to Israel's intentions in Gaza. It was such an outlandish statement I dismissed it at first, but it fits with what Regan mentioned in the podcast about knowing the motives of people whom she has never met. You and Regan really do presume to know that anyone who argues against the violence carried out by the Israeli State is doing so cynically and with malign intentions.
The human mind truly is a fascinating thing is it not? Perhaps that at least is something on which we can agree.
What a great selection of wisdom (Ryokan and Balthasar Gracian), humor (Yiddish curses) and provocative ideas for reform (corporal punishment alternative). And everything in in between. Thank you !
Your commitment to excusing and apologizing for Israel's slaughter of civilians is rather impressive. But discussion on this topic is obviously futile, because you have already smeared anyone who disagrees as anti-semetic, stupid or "high-IQ cranks". You have created for yourself a perfect Plato's cave from which you never have to leave. Congratulations I suppose, Ignorance truly is bliss.
This seems pretty extreme. Sure, I think some people are "anti-semetic, stupid or high-IQ cranks", but certainly not everyone who disagrees with me.
In the context of this conversation, it seemed clear to me that is exactly what you were saying. Allow me to refresh your memory.
After you toss off some casual unsubstantiated insults of pro-Palestinian protesters whom you admit to never having met, Vaishnav starts off this segment on anti-semitism at 51:45 by saying. at "The way they react to anything where the Jews are involved, which is mostly Israel now, it shows a willingness to indulge in patterns similar to the past." This signaled to me that Vaishnav clearly believes that anyone who criticizes Israel is an anti-semite. There are no objections to this statement.
Regan then chimes in talking about the "Strategic, conscious, weaponization of empathy and human rights against this group [Jews[", which furthers the narrative that anyone who criticizes Israel or the Jews is doing so cynically as a means to attack Jews/Israel, presumably because they are anti-semetic. No distinctions are made between Israel critics and anti-semites.
You Dr. Greenwald then say you agree with Regan, you blame Hamas for all civilian casualties in the Gaza war, then you go on to say, "antisemitism is a stupid persons belief system [...] its a thing dum people believe by and large, there are a few high-IQ cranks out there."
In the context of this conversation, it is clear to me that anti-semitism is equivalent to any criticism of Israel or Jews, and by declaring all anti-semitism to be stupid, what you were really saying is that anyone who disagrees with you on this issue is stupid or a high-IQ crank.
I am glad to hear however, that this is not the case. Perhaps you could clarify what you think is anti-semetic and who are the anti-semites whom you believe to all be stupid or high-IQ cranks.
Also I would like to introduce you to a pro-Palestine protester since you admit to never having met one. Stephen Kopos is a Jewish holocaust survivor and pro-Palestinian protester. In the interview linked below he states,
"What distinguishes the Jewish holocaust is its industrial scale, and industrial methods and what has been happening in Gaza is similar in that the scale of the bombing and the indiscriminate nature of the bombing, the complete lack of care of children and women, the majority of the victims, amounts to industrial scale genocide. The painting of Palestinian people as merciless, almost animal like, [...]that dehumanization enables the population of Israel to tolerate what is going on."
I would recommend you listen to the whole 12 minute interview if you would like a window into the minds of pro-Palestinian protesters whose motives you maligned but also claimed ignorance of.
https://x.com/DoubleDownNews/status/1816898822561468742
To answer some of what I think you're getting at:
- Yes, Hamas is responsible for Gazan deaths
- Yes, antisemitism is a stupid person's obsession. A few smart cranks who latch onto the ideology doesn't change that—smart people go down stupid rabbit holes all the time.
- No, criticism of Israel does not in principle = antisemitism
- Yes, in practice most criticism of Israel today is thinly veiled Jew hatred
- Antisemitism is hatred of Jews as Jews, or, put in more psychological terms, it's hatred of everything you find inadequate about yourself and therefore despite, along with everything you lack and therefore envy.
- As for high-IQ cranks, Kevin MacDonald may be one. But I don't like getting caught up in these kinds of "who's who" lists.
- I fail to see the relevance of the video. Mr. Kopos also discredits himself when he describes Israel as indiscriminately bombing civilians/children. That is ludicrously false, and you and me and everyone else knows it—don't pretend otherwise. If you took the time to write those nine paragraphs you just wrote, you surely know Israel goes to significant lengths to warn civilians of impending attacks, more than many other nations.
In this recent airstrike, which killed 100 people sheltering in a school, do you really imagine Israel warned them ahead of time? If you have the stomach for it, I recommend you go find images of what the aftermath of a school bombing looks like.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/more-than-100-palestinians-killed-israeli-strike-targeted-school-gaza-2024-08-10/
It seems like your are also ignorant of the AI targeting programs utilized by the IDF, which has a specific program called "Where's Daddy", which specifically targets suspected Hamas targets when they are home with their families. This is clearly deliberate targeting of civilians. https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
152 UN Aid workers have been killed by the IDF since Oct. 7th. Do you imagine all of these aid workers were warned before they were mudered?
https://x.com/antonioguterres/status/1747020836778004915
Human Rights Watch says Palestinian healthcare workers were rounded up and sent to prison and mistreated and tortured. Is this consistent with an ethical state? https://x.com/AJEnglish/status/1828143250542338427
Socrates, whom you named your blog after, once said "The only thing I know is that I know nothing." By doing so he bravely acknowledges his own ignorance, a rather admirable statement, and I think a necessary basis for having a rational view of the world. You Dr. Greenwald on the otherhand, are so sure of yourself and your opinions that you call a Jewish holocaust survivor "discredited" on the subject of describing what is a deliberate genocide.
Your commitment to remaining in your Plato's cave is remarkable though unsurprising.
Well, it looks like we each have our own opinions about this. You seem opposed to Israel prosecuting this war the way it has thus far because of the damage it has inflicted. I, on the other hand, would have been OK with Israel conducting a far more damaging and brutal war than they in fact did. If they had flattened every square inch of Gaza on October 8, I would not have complained. But I’m not Israeli so I don’t tell them how to run their country.
Interesting. Not a big fan of human rights or the Geneva conventions then either I imagine. It saddens me to hear that a man who has devoted his life's work to helping others would advocate for more violence and destruction from the Israeli State. I suppose I can only hope that cooler and kinder minds prevail in this conflict, though that doesn't seem to be the way it is shaking out does it?
Ruminating on our conversation further last night I can't help but remark on this part of your argument which I find fascinating. You claimed to "know that I know" that you were correct with regards to Israel's intentions in Gaza. It was such an outlandish statement I dismissed it at first, but it fits with what Regan mentioned in the podcast about knowing the motives of people whom she has never met. You and Regan really do presume to know that anyone who argues against the violence carried out by the Israeli State is doing so cynically and with malign intentions.
The human mind truly is a fascinating thing is it not? Perhaps that at least is something on which we can agree.
What a great selection of wisdom (Ryokan and Balthasar Gracian), humor (Yiddish curses) and provocative ideas for reform (corporal punishment alternative). And everything in in between. Thank you !